Respectful ad serving

A couple of days back I was talking about this and like never before discussion got heated up with some excellent points. If you don;t click on comments I am posting all of them here and then some more clarifications of what we might have been trying to say:

@Marketosaurs

da, am zis eu ca se va ajunge aici, poate o sa te creada lumea pe tine :)

http://marketosaurus.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/varianta-la-continutul-platit/

9/01/2009

Costin said...

Nu uita, ai decat 20% din idee. Nu e vina mea ca nu ai cerut mai mult :-P

PS. Blogul lui Costin este refresh.ro! ecostin.com nu mai are nicio legatura cu new-media de exact 6 luni si cateva zile! (Thanks!)

9/01/2009

Blegoo said...

Hmmm... no!
It aint' going to work. In real life, I mean. Take your blog: see at right certain book covers.
Doesn't bother me - wether it's ads or not. It's not intrusive.
I might even click on some...
But if you start STOPPING me from reading something... well, I don't care about this kind of "respectful ad"...

9/01/2009

Marketosaurus said...

Blegoo, o sa mearga clar!

Cine nu are curajul s-o faca pe motiv ca-s pierde cititorii, ala clar nu are valoare. Dupa cum am mai spus, la inceputurile radioului si televiziunii, aceeasi reactie a avut-o publicul, dar s-a obisnuit in timp si acum isi povestesc si parodiaza reclamele.

9/01/2009

Bogdana Butnar said...

Costin, am modificat link. Multumesc de precizare. 20% din cateva milioane e bine :P
Marketosaurus, look at it this way - acum ai doi trei oameni in plus care au avut aceeasi idee ca tine deci poate se va intampla ceva. cumva ar trebui sa fie despre idee si nu despre tine :)

9/02/2009

Radu said...

Cu liniuta, ca la scoala:

- E dovedit ca userii au devenit imuni la display ads, sunt antrenati sa le ignore. De asta unii oameni mai destepti decat prevede bunul simt au introdus overlay-ul. Am avut probleme cand formatul / pozitionarea unui buton sau call-to-action se apropiau de cele ale unui banner, userii le ignorau instinctiv.

- E ca si cum m-as uita la un videoclip pe YouTube iar in mijlocul lui... zbang! pauza 10 secunde de reclama. Nu de asta migram dinspre TV inspre online? Nu de asta mai degraba ma uit la acelasi film pe TVR sau pe HBO decat pe Pro TV. E ok sa-mi servesti la interval asteptat si masurat dar nu sa-mi intrerupi experienta.

- Visual vorbind, ce tii in locul ad-ului "respectuos" pana iti dai seama ca omul petrece pe site tmediu + 1s? O sa-i afisezi peste content-ul pe care-l citeste ceva?

Don't get me wrong dar mi se pare mai lipsit de respect sa-mi intrerupi experienta / cititul / belitul ochilor cu o reclama decat sa-mi arati 10 din start pe care oricum le ignor din obisnuinta sau le blochez cu AdBlock :)

N-ar fi mai simplu ca advertiserii si publisherii sa devina pur si simplu mai responsabili si sa invete sa respecte userul decat sa reinventeze roata?

Iar ideea unui nou browser e... ceva deosebit :)

Poate am inteles eu gresit ideea...

Spor!

9/02/2009

Marketosaurus said...

Bogdana, ai dreptate. Orgoliul e mare ce sa-i faci , mai ales cand esti luat in ras cu ideea de mai sus, ca nu e buna, ca mrr crr. Si mai ales cand esti ferm convins ca asta e viitorul advertisingului pe net.

9/02/2009

Blegoo said...

@ Marketosaurus: your reply reminds me of Adrian Cristea (back in the times of Netoo) - "...you wanna, or you don't - it's gonna happen!"
Well, we all know shit happens...

I agree with what Radu says on line 3; other than that, my objection is not with the idea, but rather with the way it will be implemented. So far, the formula Bogdana describes is the same as the one used on tv, right? Looks to me like another discovery of heated water delivered to consumers.

Tv is a passive medium, as we all know; pausing for ads every 15 minutes or so allows watchers to stand up, grab a bite or visit the bathroom.
Tv content is MADE to allow for advertising breaks. Movies, telenovellas,serials, etc - all these are designed to be segmented.
Do you envision articles written by Bogdana here (to use an example) in distinct paragraphs of, say... 20 seconds?
Say... I'm arriving here, I start to read... 30 seconds pass... BLAM! pop-ups, banners, etc - for 10 seconds...all over the screen. Is this what you call "respectful"?

Tv content is delivered at the same speed for everyone. Internet content, on the other hand, is more like traditional publishing; I might pause in the middle of an article to pick my nose or answer the phone. Or maybe I just have 4 tabs open in browser, and I move from one to the other. Technically, I'm still reading this article, right?

I'm not making fun of you personally, nor do I put down the idea just to play Gika-Kontra.

I'm just having problems with ideas not fully explored. I can continue to punch holes in your concept until tomorrow morning - but I'm sure that you can start discovering them yourself...

9/02/2009

Marketosaurus said...

@Blegoo,

well, nu stiu cu exactitate dedesubturile ideii Bogdanei, asa ca nu am sa raspund in numele ei. Ceea ce eu am scris la mine pe blog nu are deloc de-a face cu "respectful".

Vorbesc din punctul de vedere al unui publisher, nu mi-e deloc jena sa bag reclame invazive, televiziunile fac lucrul asta si nimeni nu se plange. E foarte simplu, bagi o reclama full screen cand vizitatorul acceseaza pagina. Apoi bagi cate 10 secunde la fiecare 5 minute. Ideal ar fi sa-i bagi vizitatorului reclama targetata, in functie de pagina pe care respectivul o viziteaza.

Nu cred ca idea are vreun punct slab, pur si simplu eu iti bag tie reclama obligatorie pentru ca pot, tu iti bagi picioarele in situl meu, te duci in alta parte si vezi ca si respectivul a bagat tot reclame obligatorii. Nu te gandi la chichitze, la subtilitati! Esti tentat sa crerzi ca nu merge. Daca gsp,prosport, realitatea, evz, cotidianul, neogen, softpedia samd adopta ideea, tu ce faci?

Iti bag reclame ordinare, plictisitoare, enervante, cateodata chiar reclame fun, iar tu vei trimite linkul meu amicilor cu mesajul "uitati aici o reclama suuuupeeer"

Cheia intregului concept vine din psihologie. Cand un lucru este impus ca fiind obligatoriu este mult mai usor acceptat.

9/02/2009

Blegoo said...

@Marketosaurus: Ei, deja vorbim altceva; Nici ce zice Bogdana, nici ce zice Manafu. Am sa ma mut cu latraturile la tine pe blog, ca devine oarescum... ne targuim pe ideea ta la Bogdana in curte. (ma si mir ca nu a dat cu pietre inca... :) )

9/02/2009

Radu said...

"Vorbesc din punctul de vedere al unui publisher, nu mi-e deloc jena sa bag reclame invazive, televiziunile fac lucrul asta si nimeni nu se plange.

[...]

pur si simplu eu iti bag tie reclama obligatorie pentru ca pot, tu iti bagi picioarele in situl meu, te duci in alta parte si vezi ca si respectivul a bagat tot reclame obligatorii. Nu te gandi la chichitze, la subtilitati! Esti tentat sa crerzi ca nu merge. Daca gsp,prosport, realitatea, evz, cotidianul, neogen, softpedia samd adopta ideea, tu ce faci?
"

Avem nevoie de mai multi oameni ca si tine ca sa scoatem online-ul romanesc din rahat.

Te rog, arata-ne Calea Cea Dreapta!

9/03/2009

Marketosaurus said...

Blegoo, ideea Bogdanei difera de ideea mea (cel putin prin prisma celor prezentate de ea) doar prin faptul ca la ea are o denumire mai putin invaziva gen "respectful".

Uite, ca sa fiu impaciuitor, sunt perfect de acord cu denumirea data de ea ;)

Radu, pe orice publisher il intereseaza sa faca bani, nu sa scoata o industrie din rahat, asa e peste tot. Totusi nu vad de ce "respectful ad serving" ar dauna onlineului.

Calea cea dreapta ti-o poate arata Bucurenci si altii care fac voluntariat, aici e vorba de revolutionat advertisingul online aka bani grei, iar mofturile utilizatorilor pot fi trecute lejer cu vederea. Sau poate tu preferi varianta hard a lui Murdoch in care ti se cere abonament?

Imi dau seama ca orice as spune, nu prea pot sa va conving. Dar repet, parerea voastra, a mea, nu conteaza aici, pt ca asa va fi! De ce va fi asa? Simplu, pt ca banul dicteaza mersurile in mainstream.

Va salut...respectful :D

9/03/2009

parvan said...

treaba cu "reclama ca pe Tv" nu poate sa ignore si comparatie de CPM -uri pentru ca de la idee la practica sigur se va trece prin asta.

in plus sistemele astea de care vorbiti ar trebui sa includa si variabila "timp" ... care momentan iar nu cred ca-s in favoarea onlineului.

predictibilitatea reclamei si usurinta de a o "skip"-ui nu cred ca este un atu al televiziunii (dealtfel nici nu identific demersuri ale teleiziunilor in acest sens)

Bogdana ... oricate "masuri miraculoase" am imagina ... fondul ramane acelasi: userii trebuie sa inteleaga ca pentru a avea acces la diverse forme de media ... acele media au nevoie de timpul/atentia lor pe care sa-l vanda pentru a finanta continutul.
Totul depinde de "valoarea" acelui timp cedat.
Advertiserii pot ajuta incercand ca acest timp cedat sa aiba si o relevanta pozitiva pt useri (prin targetare)... dar "acceptanta" depinde de noi toti ca useri si de modul in care publisherul ne convinge ca "merita".

So first, the good points of the above (if you don't speak romanian)
- where's the difference between Respectful and what is happening right now?
- it's no different from TV and TV ads are the main reasons we are migrating to Internet
- how is this going to be implemented, really?
- people need to understand that good content needs to be paid for.

Now, what I was thinking about is simpler. First of all, respectful ad serving is not about removing non intrusive ads (like the simple leaderboard and sky scraper), but more about - as the name says it - striking a respect-based deal with consumers. When they care about the content they should be warned that the time they spend will be interrupted. So the idea was to mark all participating websites with a logo. This logo would, for instance, start flickering when you are in "open for ad serving mode" - meaning when you've spent more than 15-20 seconds on a page. That would make you aware that "intrusive ads" are about to be served. You can choose to leave or, like in classical TV mode, wait to see what they are and then read on. the difference is in the manner you connect with the reader: you don't push your ads but ask for permission. Once there was talk of permission marketing - maybe we can do permission ad serving.

The thing is, people, asking users to pay for content in the form of micro payments like The Economist is not going to happen in Romania anytime soon. Anderson was right: digital is free so advertising is the only way to pay for stuff online unless we finally discover that magical monetizing method everyone is talking about. That we have developed immunity to online advertising already can only be a big problem and instead of continuously relying on the famed "creativity" we can try to brainstorm for smarter and less elusive ways to handle our customers online.

I am seriously open to more reactions and maybe we can do something worthwhile with this. For instance I am going to ask Manafu to let us maybe discuss this at Webstock. Anyone interested in doing a roundtable on this?